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Michele H.'s avatar

I am grateful to the author of this thoughtful, vulnerable essay. As a therapist myself, I agree with what you say regarding the lack of critical thinking in our field. In grad school we are taught very little about this and what is taught is one path only ("gender affirming care") and any research we are instructed to read is outdated (published in 2010) and based on adults. But you aren't allowed to ask questions without being accused of causing your non-binary/trans-identified classmates to feel unsafe. It's crazy. I loved what you described in your capstone project as revealing how complex the "trans" community is. This is one of the reasons I think a blanket automatic "affirming" approach is so ridiculous. As the saying goes, if you've met one "trans" person, you've met one.

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Kat Highsmith's avatar

These types of articles perfectly demonstrate why the only answer to all of this must be NO.

When an adult walks into a doctor's office and says "I want to be the opposite sex!" the answer can only be NO. Doctors say no to patients all the time, and this is the only thing that will work here. These people are suffering from a symptom due to an underlying problem which is what really needs attention. They don't need to mutilate themselves to live a lie. We are our bodies. There is no way to be something else.

And that is why "trans" people do not exist. That is why "gender dysphoria" or whatever term is now being used doesn't exist. This is a symptom, and we cannot upend society to cater to it.

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citrit's avatar

that trans people fail to articulate a unified idea of transness, that detransitioners exist, and that diagnoses are often haphazard is evidence of gross medical malpractice.

it is not evidence that trans individuals do not exist.

it would be immensely odd, given how bad nature is with binaries, that sexual dimorphism is strictly adhered to resulting in trans people never existing.

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Kat Highsmith's avatar

You are 100% wrong.

There are no "trans" people. That's why nobody can explain it. That inability is precisely the evidence we need. It cannot be explained because none of it is real.

Sex is binary. Do not try the "sex is a spectrum!" or "what about iNtErSeX?" nonsense. This has been settled a million times already, and I'm sick of dolts who try it.

There are large gametes and small gametes because there are two sexes.

Nothing more.

None of this is working. LOL "he/they" pronouns in bio--never mind, opinions discarded. You're the bottom of the barrel.

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citrit's avatar

Why would sex be binary? It's a natural phenomena selected for it's reproductive fitness. It might be very close to binary, but it's highly unlikely to be actually binary, given the random & imperfect process of natural selection.

The large and small gametes thing is a weird aspect to hyperfixate on, since there are individuals who don't produce gametes at all. Would they then be considered as sexless?

When we refer to sex, we are referring to a trait evolved to ensure genetic diversity. Humans are a sexually dimorphic species, meaning we tend to have certain morphologies depending on our sex. Gender refers to certain neurological/physiological characteristics resulting from sexual dimorphism that are socially relevant.

Of course, what I've just stated is an oversimplification. It's us humans who assign categories, and the lines of said categories can get blurry. In my opinion, we should ask for what purpose we assign categories, and change them based on normative considerations.

The singular they is a pronoun used since before shakespeare. I put it in my bio because it's semantically accurate.

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Kat Highsmith's avatar

Don't speak on things you don't understand.

Sex is binary, this has been settled a million times, and if you're too clueless to understand it, then continue on with your nonsense.

"Nonbinary" bullshit with "they" pronouns is nonsense. It's not semantically correct. You're not more than one person, and Shakespeare knew exactly who the females were because females were banned from the stage in his plays. Only males were allowed to act, in all roles. Nobody was trying the "they" pronouns back then as some type of special way to get attention.

Nobody was confused about sex back then, and nobody is now either. Don't even try it.

I've had it with this nonsense.

You people are the worst. I've had it with this bullshit.

https://www.nas.org/academic-questions/33/2/in-humans-sex-is-binary-and-immutable

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citrit's avatar

"There's not a man I meet but doth salute me / As if I were their well-acquainted friend." [Comedy of Errors, Act IV Scene 3]

Shakespeare very much did use the singular they! If you can't accept this basic fact of grammar, I'm not really sure how to convince you of anything.

I have studied biology and as such have a basic understanding of sex, sexual selection, and sexual dimorphism as they pertain to biology. I don't know why you say that sex is binary when the scientific consensus says otherwise. Clownfish change their sex under specific circumstances, asexual species are sexless, we even have examples of female lions adopting behaviour we had, up until that point, only observed in male lions.

In nature, sex is a concept with quite blurry lines. To say with such confidence that sex is binary I think betrays a misunderstanding of the literature on your part. I encourage you to read more about it.

The source you cite is published by the National Association of Scholars, which is widely known to be right wing and with mixed factuality.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/national-association-of-scholars-nas-bias/

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Kat Highsmith's avatar

I didn't say "they" was never used.

I said it doesn't mean that nobody knew what females and males are. Shakespeare knew exactly that there were two sexes. Females were kept off the stage based on their sex, and there are two. No female was allowed to call herself "they" and thereby escape her sex and somehow get the same rights as a man.

Nobody thought calling one person THEY meant that person's sex was irrelevant or "nonbinary" exists. That's completely asinine. That might work in some stupid gender studies 101 class, but not with me. Nice job Googling one line with "their" though.

If you are going to try the iNteRseX and clownfish nonsense, you're not smart enough to speak with me about this. And that is clear because this is pathetic. Every stupid trope there is, you did it. We are mammals, not fish.

Sex is not blurry. It's binary. The man who wrote the article is a doctor at a Stanford lab, and he recognizes this is a political issue which is why leftist journals and departments ignore it.

You have nothing to encourage me to read about this. Don't speak about right wing when multiple biologists have addressed this. That article is just the best summary, and you didn't even address any of the points because you can't.

You people are honestly pathetic. This is why "trans" is losing. Its defenders are morons.

I've had it with you morons. I've just hit my limit with your low IQ takes.

I'll post this even though you're not smart enough to get it, but maybe a smarter person will see it.

https://kathighsmith.substack.com/p/intersex-idiots-five-reasons-this

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Owl's avatar

I'm trans. I exist. Just because you don't understand that means nothing.

It can be explained. It already has been.

Trans people have been here since before the idea of gender was. The psychological discomfort you're experiencing isn't proof that you're right--its your own problem. Fix it.

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Alexa Pastore's avatar

No. Stop glomming onto the language used by gay people “your psychological discomfort”.

Trans is a made up term with no roots in reality and biology.

When we say “trans does not exist”, we mean trans is not an inborn trait. It’s a meaningless abstract concept which has manifested itself as a social contagion in people with mental illness.

No one is born in the wrong body. No person has a brain of the opposite sex. Every cell in your brain is sexed. You are not oppressed, you’ve been lied to and manipulated by an ideology concocted by men with sexual fetishes.

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Message In A Bottle's avatar

Of course you exist. And of course you’re trans. In the same way people are Anabaptists or Scientologists or Satanists or Zoroastrians. Whatever personal history and set of circumstances led you to your strongly held convictions aren’t invalidated by people saying trans is a set of beliefs prescribing certain experimental medical interventions as a method of personal healing, instead of an inborn trait. Because that’s what they’re saying.

And as far as trans existing before gender, I’d look up culturally bound syndromes. Just because every culture and time has people who are outliers on the bell curve for their sex doesn’t mean the way our culture has decided to deal with them for the past generation or two is the one true answer, or even necessarily a good answer.

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Kat Highsmith's avatar

There's no such thing as "trans."

If you're talking about someone who just don't follow stereotypes, that's everyone. Nobody out there follows every single stereotype for sex. That's just called personality.

"Trans" is not like religion. Someone can convert to a religion to practice it. Nobody can be another body. We are our bodies.

This is a language battle, so using the word gives it validity. "Trans" does not exist. You're talking about clothes or fashion or hobbies--say that.

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Message In A Bottle's avatar

I agree with you that no one conforms to everything considered standard for their sex. I also agree that it’s a language war on some level.

I just think that of course trans people exist because there are people who believe in a whole host of connected ideas that lead them to pursue these extreme medical interventions in search of self actualization and healing. You have to call them something.

You have to pin their word to what is actually happening or come up with an equally widely understood alternate. Of course they’re not becoming men/women, even in that wishwashy gender sense, that’s the belief that we don’t share coming in. Look up the Skoptsy - they practiced castration to restore themselves from original sin. Of course they weren’t actually becoming holy, that’s the belief that I’m assuming neither of us share coming in.

“I’m trans and I exist” is a thought terminating cliche in response to people saying “trans doesn’t exist”. Of course the people physically exist, and it’s not a call to trans g***ide or whatever goes around in those circles sometimes, but what you’re actually saying is totally lost in the reflexive response.

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nope's avatar

So trans people do exist, and gender dysphoria does as well. I think the issues are that a) being trans doesn't work the way that people claim it works b) it's not necessarily true that transitioning is the best cure, or even a good cure, for gender dysphoria and c) the left really pushes for trans people to be a thing where it isn't and shouldn't be

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Kat Highsmith's avatar

Wrong.

There is no such thing as "trans" people because there's no such thing as "trans." Men who don't want to be men are still men, and there is no special category for those who want to refuse the reality of their sexed body.

There's no such thing as "gender dysphoria." You couldn't define it logically if you tried.

There is cross-dressing fetish, pornography sickness, autism, bipolar disorder, OCD, and childhood abuse trauma. That covers what we're referring to here.

There is no such thing as "transition," even if someone passes and almost none do. Sex is binary and immutable and nobody can feel like the opposite sex, no matter how badly their delusions pester them.

None of this is real.

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nope's avatar

So gender according to modern definition is stuff that correlates with biological sex that has nothing to do with primary or secondary sex characteristics. So stuff like clothing choices, mannerisms, attitudes, etc. Like there's no technical reason men can't wear dresses, it's just that society worked out in a way that it's something women wear and not men. It's possible that in the future this will change. So the definition of a transgender person is someone who consistently engages in gender stuff that correlated with the opposite sex.

This obviously exists and it's not special or difficult to do. Anyone can choose to dress or act in a way that correlates with the opposite sex at any time, most people just don't. The issue imo is when people start believing that the people who do this have semi-metaphysical properties like being a girl in a boys body or whatever.

Gender dysphoria is then when someone doesn't feel comfortable engaging in the gender stuff that correlates with their biological sex. I don't think this is necessarily special or difficult either. Most people probably have some qualms about some aspects of what their gender "calls for". Maybe a girl doesn't like looking pretty, maybe a guy doesn't wanna be really physically strong. That's all fine and normal which is why gender expression tends to be diverse and one doesn't have to do everything. When someone really dislikes most aspects of their sex's gender expression I guess you can call that gender dysphoria.

Where it goes wrong imo is what's considered the concept of transitioning. Basically if one doesn't like their sex's gender expression they can technically just do what they like instead. The problem is that at a certain point it becomes socially unacceptable, so trans people turn to "industrial grade" excuses to keep acting how they want in spite of society, such as being mentally ill, or born in the wrong body, or getting surgery to the point where other people accept them doing the opposite sex's gender stuff.

I don't think it's inherently necessary or good to resort to such measures. I think if one feels the need to engage in the opposite sex's gender stuff they can do it but should really consider their motivations for wanting that. It's likely coming from a deeper place than "just wanting to do that". Some of it is simply values and temperament, and it's ok that not all aspects of their sex's gender fit them, and they should be ok with not playing to their genders stereotype and society should be more accepting of that. Others might be repressing something deeper and should come to terms with why they feel those things in that way. There's no need to pathologize these feelings into its own condition to the extent that we've been doing so far.

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Kat Highsmith's avatar

Look at the mental gymnastics and word salad nonsense you have to engage in to try to make this make sense.

It's all bullshit.

Save time and just read this: https://kathighsmith.substack.com/p/gender-has-no-application-to-humans

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nope's avatar

There's no mental gymnastics here, I'm pointing at durable phenomena and trying to explain it. If you notice I legitimately answer some questions in your article that you left as "rhetorical".

I agree with your points about euphemistic language surrounding the trans concept and that its often incredibly disingenuous and misleading about how this stuff works, and it does cause people harm and we should put a stop to that. However the reason the trans movement persisted as long as it did imo is because there's more truth in what the pro trans people are saying than the anti trans people are willing to acknowledge, and as such both positions are actually wrong and trapped in a bad paradigm. Both sides need to figure out where the baby ends and the bathwater begins so they can effectively solve the issues they're encountering.

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Kat Highsmith's avatar

Wrong.

You didn't answer any questions. You play word salad games because the word "gender" has no application to humans. Those weren't rhetorical questions. You seem to be using the word to mean "stereotypes." Nobody can build an identity on stereotypes, and removing testicles isn't affirming stereotypes. That's biology.

There is no such thing as "trans" and don't try the "both sides" nonsense here. There are men in women's prisons and women get attacked in public by men in dresses for this. You trot out every stupid platitude I've heard a million times.

Nobody can feel like another body. That is where you fail and that is because "gender dysphoria" is bullshit. It doesn't exist, and you proved it with your nonsense.

Nobody is falling for these word games. This is why "trans" is a lie. No one can defend it.

Read another, and just stop with the irrational mealy-mouthed nonsense:

https://kathighsmith.substack.com/p/top-10-stupidest-definitions-for

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David Schlenz's avatar

This very well might be the one, the one article I can send to family members that just might stand a chance of cracking the wall of ignorance without completely alienating me. But it still feels so, so risky.

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Anna's avatar

This is a very thoughtful essay. We need to hear more voices like yours.

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ML's avatar

Very well done. It is rare to see an article that gets both the psychological trauma and the effects of the medical interventions right. Bravo!

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Mark Russell's avatar

Simply breathtaking. I am absolutely shocked to read such raw honesty and thoughtfulness. I am in the camp that adults make adult decisions, and children are not adults. We should stop trying to "adult" them.

I think its also true some people will be harmed by not getting the whole truth (sorry to the post-modernist that take offence to the notion of truth). Informed consent means you are informed. When that doesn't happen there should be consequences.

Until now, I thought there was little hope in this space but this personal revelation shared here means there is hope. We need more of this. I have said the moment you make an appointment to see a gender specialist your fate is sealed. It is consumer based non-sense and nuance is a pathetic excuse for not doing the job that involves actual diagnostic exploration - asking why. Thank you for sharing this is vital!!!

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Renee's avatar

Wonderful essay, and I applaud your courage to examine your beliefs.

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GenderRealistMom's avatar

I hope you find peace and health. Thanks for writing this moving essay.

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Billy5959's avatar

You are a remarkably brave and sane person, to have gone through all this and to be able to accept where you find yourself with calm. I feel nothing but anger towards the "therapists" and doctors who are pushing girls and young women into medicalisation, and then washing their hands of the outcomes.

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Quill's ledger's avatar

Lmao cope harder

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Magdalena's avatar

??

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Wee's avatar

Thank you for such an honest, thoughtful, truthful, compassionate, calm and reasonable look at this issue. Many people who err toward hysteria in this area could learn from it.

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Mauve Dinosaur's avatar

This is a fairly similar path to my own, except my first encounter with a psychologist giving me that diagnosis was about 5 years prior. It was still an instant diagnosis even back then and the online spaces sound awfully similar to how they were back then as well.

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Gender Crossroads's avatar

Interesting - thank you for sharing your experience.

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Mrip's avatar

Thank you for your honesty and bravery. I’m sorry that this happened. Please know that those of us that agree with you can understand what you have had to sacrifice in order to be truthful to yourself. I believe that you will not be sorry as time goes on. ❤️

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Peter's avatar

Love the turtle pic

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Darn It All To Heck's avatar

It is encouraging to hear about people who do reconsider viewpoints when confronted with evidence. I am interested in helping social work as a profession understand a fuller picture of this issue. Let me know if you'd be interested in teaming up in such endeavors.

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Gender Crossroads's avatar

What did you have in mind?

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Darn It All To Heck's avatar

I’m also an MSW and would like to help social work become deradicalized about gender transition

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The Third Space Podcast's avatar

Please consider joining the Heterodox Academy Social Work Group

https://heterodoxacademy.org/join-hxcommunity/

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Darn It All To Heck's avatar

Sorry for the delayed reply! I have attempted to offer webinars to social work spaces on the filer picture. If teaming up with someone with loved experience I wonder if the free would be better received.

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u.n. owen's avatar

1. How many women die annually because they were BORN that way?

2. How many trans women suffer toxic tampon shock, monthly cramps & bleeding, menopausal mood swings, hot flashes & weight gain, fibroids, mastectomies, hysterectomies, gynecological cancers or die in childbirth?

3. What gender "debate"? There is only human reproductive BIOLOGY.

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Peter's avatar

The same number as trans women who can wean a baby.

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Heather's avatar

You should know (if you were able read the article thoroughly) that the data is of low quality, so we'll never know how many trans women have mastectomies, for example, - whether it's similar to the number of biological men who have mastectomies, or biological women... I presume that's what you want to know??? I'm not sure what knowing that data would do for you?

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u.n. owen's avatar

Yes, because what does it matter women die because they were born that way, do you even know any? 🍏🐍🧙‍♀️🔥

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Blue Kay's avatar

The people considered science-based experts on gender dysphoria are the very people who benefit from the confirming the widesoread existence of the disorder and charge for treating it.

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Blue Kay's avatar

The people considered science-based experts on gender dysphoria are the very people who benefit from the confirming the widespread existence of the disorder and charge for treating it.

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